Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Well, hi, good morning. We are recording again today from Collab Works, and today my guest is Crystal Tosh, and I've asked her to come in today because she's been in the digital marketing world for a long time and maybe even other marketing worlds that I'm not aware of before the digital marketing world.
She's currently working at the convention center, and she's just, what should I say? She's done a lot of things, and she's going to bring a wealth of knowledge. And what I'm going to ask her to do first is maybe just tell us a little bit about her and what she's doing, and then I'd like to get into some conversations that's important to all small business owners, and that is how do we market in today's age? Right? We have all these different medias that we can be on. We don't know how to be on there, we don't know what to talk about when we do get there, et cetera, et cetera. So we're going to dive deep today, and I'm going to turn it over to you, Crystal. Hi, good morning.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Well, good morning. I'm excited to be here. As you know, I love podcasting. I've owned a podcasting agency in the past, so I currently work as the marketing director for the Paducah McCracken County Convention Center. And I'm sure your listeners are like, wait, what? She owned her own agency and now she has a job, as I say. And yes, I did the agency thing for, let's see, almost six years of owning my own thing and doing my own thing, and the burnout is real. So it's really cool that we're having this conversation because I really want to help small business owners not burn out, because I was a small business owner who did this for a living and burnt out. So it's really fun to be here and really talk about all of these platforms and digital marketing. We've got YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, you know, podcasting, and the list goes on and on.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: And I feel like every day there's something new or something I'm not aware of or something changing. So I really, really appreciate you coming in today to try to clear this up for us because I feel like it's just I want to pull my hair out when I get into this world. And then I think, okay, I'm going to be focused. I'm going to get into the world. I'm going to focus on maybe Facebook today, because that's really kind of where I know how to market. Yes.
And then I get distracted, and then there's all these things for me as a business owner, and then, you know, and I start going down the rabbit hole. Yeah. And even though I have a good plan and an agenda and sitting in front of me, I'm still in the rabbit hole.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Well, that's a whole thing within the industry. And that's a reason why I'm kind of like over the marketing industry as a whole. Because everyone's selling a different solution. Right. And most of them are one size fits all, cookie cutter. Buy my thing and I'll solve all your problems kind of solutions. And it really does take you as a business owner down a rabbit hole. Maybe you do have a plan and then you get online and you see someone else talking about you should be doing this and not that. It's always conflicting. Right. Like, yes, I hear blogging is dead. It's actually not. But someone's trying to sell you a solution to not blog. So. Or reels are everything and you shouldn't be. I mean, I've heard everything. Podcasting is dead. It's all dead in some aspect. Right. They say. But the truth is you have to kind of find what works. And as a small business owner, especially in small towns, you're right. Facebook is still where most people are hanging out. It is the most universally used platform. So while it may feel like everything else is going on, I do think Facebook is still, you know, important to all small businesses because it acts as a search engine. So if I Google collab works, I'm going to find your Facebook page, most likely along before your website. So I'm going to find your social media and it's a way to validate your business. So you definitely want those pages to be active. But Facebook is pay to play. They want you to pay money because.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: So what if we don't? Let's talk about that for a second. So what if we don't pay money? So we just go on there, we create an ad, get some content out there. Right. Not. Not create an ad that would be paid.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: That's paid. Yeah, that's paid media.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Let's back up. Okay, so I go on there and I just create some content and I'm like, oh, this is really good. I got a good picture, I got a good message, and I stick that out there and I don't put any money behind it. What happens?
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Well, if it's on a Facebook business page and you. Let's just say you have a thousand followers we're just going to use round numbers. I would say about 10% of those followers are actually going to see that. So that's not much. Right. Like, I mean, look at the convention center, for example. We have over almost 11,000 followers.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Wow, that's great.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it's great. But Facebook limits our reach. No matter kind of what we do, we average about 2,000 people. That's on a good day. A thousand if it's just kind of normal. So what's going to happen is not that many people are going to see it. So we've got to think about social media in the sense of it's social, and these platforms let us be there for free because they're making money. Right. So we are the product. So we have to strategically think about it. So I tell everyone that you need to just use your Facebook, your personal one. You need to flip on that professional mode, which you and I have talked about. It's pretty much eligible for everybody. Like, if you look for it, you will probably find that you can be a Facebook professional. And what that does is it turns your personal profile into having the same types of analytics as your business page, and then you're actually going to reach more people because again, Facebook and all of these platforms actually like creators more than they like businesses.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And I didn't understand that, so I thought about that a lot over the weekend. So on Friday, Crystal and I talked a lot about this, and she helped me to turn my personal page into. What did you call it? A professional page.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Professional, Yep.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: And I have no idea what she's talking about, but I do trust her because she is what I consider one of the experts in the field. So we do this. I give her control of my Facebook thing, hoping that, you know, that that's what she's doing and not, like, going to, like, spoof me in some way. Right.
But what I noticed over the weekend was I had a lot of different things coming in that I've never noticed. And I had people sending friend requests that I didn't notice. And I just felt like overall, my personal page got some attention that it has not gotten.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: And I've.
I don't know, I think maybe today in this chair, I would say I'm kind of a believer because that we did that Friday, right?
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: I lived it through Saturday and Sunday, and I haven't paid a lot of attention and drilled down in anything. But what I would say is there were a lot of notifications. There were friend requests coming in and not friend requests from People that I don't know or that are sketchy, right? But real true friend requests of people that maybe that couldn't find me or whatever, however that works, right?
[00:07:14] Speaker B: It just basically triggered the algorithm, like, oh, this person is now doing what we want them to do, and they might become a content creator. So what it did is it started pushing your profile to people that you might know. And it was, you know, you're at the top of the pack, right? So then they're like, oh, I know her. Let me friend request her. And the other thing about a professional page is you can now segregate follows or friend requests. So Facebook always has a max friend. You can only have 5,000 friends. So a lot of.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: I never max that out. Never.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Some people max it out. And so there was this problem in the business world and in the marketing world, especially building personal brands, where, well, I can't add any more Facebook friends, right?
[00:07:57] Speaker A: And they would have to have a business page.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: They'd have to have a business page. So Facebook kind of decided to turn on these professional profiles, and they were wanting people to create reels and create more content, because the longer people spend on these platforms, the more the company makes, right? So it's a. It's a game. So they want people creating massive amounts of content so that you can follow along and stay in that scroll hole, as we. As we call it. You know, I like that.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: The scroll hole.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: I keep scrolling.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: You know, I'm gonna break away for a second. I want to talk about that for a second, because I pick up my phone and I'm always in the scroll hole. And then in about 30 minutes, I'll real. I'll realize, yep, 30 minutes has passed. And then I think, what did I do? What did I even pick this up for? I don't even know what I picked it up for. Sorry, not to distract, but that is a real thing, and that is what it wants to do with us. It wants us to pick up the phone, get on social media or anything, really. And then all of a sudden, we're lost.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, if you guys think about when Facebook started, I don't know, I was one of those early adopters, and in the very beginning, it just a chronological order of our friends posting content, and there was really no way to react to anything. The like button is what changed Facebook and everything about Facebook. We were just getting information, kind of just seeing it like it's on a poster, right? And then Facebook thought, well, this isn't keeping people here. How do we make it addictive. I mean, this is really based in psychology. And so they introduced the like button, and now we have all these different reaction emojis and stuff. And again, this is because. Because every time you as a creator get one of those, you get a dopamine hit.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: You're like, oh, people. Like, people are interacting.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Yeah. When I post something on Facebook, when I hear that notification, I want to know, who was it? And what did they say?
[00:09:52] Speaker B: What'd they do?
[00:09:52] Speaker A: What did they do? What emoji did I get? And if I get nothing, I'm sad.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: It affects me in a negative way. And so we've gotten a little off topic here, but let's just stay on the topic of Facebook in general, because that's what's happening with us personally, and that's what's happening with us with our business marketing.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Yes. So basically, to kind of full circle moment here, if you can turn your Facebook profile into a professional profile, you are going to get more reach, and it's kind of a way to skirt that algorithm and get your business more attention. And I know a lot of people's argument is, well, my friends don't want to see me post about my business. Well, I got to tell you, if you're trying to market your business, let's not worry about your friends who probably support or don't support your business. And you just want to figure out how to get the most bang for your buck. And if you're operating on a limited marketing budget, meaning you're not spending money.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: All of us. All of us.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Then you're going to have to forget what Aunt Sally thinks about what you post, and you're just going to have to embrace that your personal profile is now your business billboard.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I do. I think that when. Well, I know Friday, when we talked about it, that was the very first thing. And, you know, I feel like I always represent the common person, like I am the general public. If there is a general public response to something, I'm gonna have it.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: You're the ideal client.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: For a general public.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: So that's the first thing I said to Crystal was, you know, well, my friends don't want to see all this business, and then they're gonna unfriend me. But then I thought about that a lot, too, over the weekend, and I thought, well, if they're my friends and this is my business and it represents who I am and what I'm trying to do as a human in this world, and I'M being authentic and myself. And they unfriend me because all of a sudden I'm not posting pictures of poppies growing in the field and some, you know, quote that I've looked up to make us feel good, but I'm posting real things about my business. Yeah, then that didn't make sense. And I thought, well, that was, that was really bad from the beginning. That was a bad thought from the beginning. And I'm glad that you brought my attention to it and it made a lot of sense. And I'm glad that I was like, okay, well, let's do this. Let's, let's use that personal page for something else.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Besides just meaningless content that I'm putting on there so that I can collect friends, many of which I don't even know who they are. And again, never shooting for the 5,000.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Right? Never shoot. Well, the nice thing is if you do reach 5,000, because of this professional profile, people can choose to follow you. And actually when they follow, they're going to be getting more notifications about what you post.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Probably going to pop up this week. Follow.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah, follow. Follow request. So actually once you do this, it auto makes, it automatically makes your profile public, which means that people can follow you just like we follow celebrities. So if they are choosing to follow you, there's a reason they trust you. We are all micro influencers. Whether we like it or not, we influence the people around us. And so to your point about, you know, meaningless content, I always tell people this idea that your business and your personal life are completely separate is a thing of the past. That's like the boomer generation. Now our businesses are usually passion projects or something that has very much to do with who we are as a person. And so it's more personal branding with a business component. Right.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: And don't you think some of that though, is because the world has changed? We used to work for big corporations. I mean, you know, in the last 10 years, entrepreneurship and the belief that we can do things on our own without big backings from company, you know, we've changed the way we want to live. We've changed the way we want to work. And I think that was well on its way to change. But then Covid hit and we all learned a lot more about life and balance and what was important. And so going back to today's conversation, the just the thought of marketing yourself, that's where we all need help. And when we're starting out, marketing is very, very expensive, even with small agencies. And I'm not taking anything away from the agencies because they're wonderful. Many of them do a very, very good job. But the DIYers that are going to insist that they need to do some of this themselves until they make the money to pay someone else to do it, because we, let's be real, we would all love to pay someone else to do it. It's a lot of work. It takes a lot of thought. We don't know what we're doing. We have to learn new hamster wheels every day. Right. But in the beginning, we do have to do it on our own. And so you sharing just this piece of knowledge of turning that page, that personal page into a professional page is huge to me.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and as an agency owner, I just want to tell you too, no one is ever. I don't care how much you pay them, because I've done it all. I have been a full service marketing agency for brands. And so that means we would write their blogs, we would make their social media posts, and, you know, we would help them record their podcast. But no one will ever speak to your brand like you will, and they will never capture it like you will, especially if they're contracted help. Now, if they work for you in your everyday office and they get to know you in and out in the company, yes, they can probably create that content in a more aligned way. But it was always a struggle owning an agency, I think, to fully capture another person's brand. So I've never truly believed that people should do that. Unless you have very deep pockets and you have a pretty generic brand. If your company very much hinges on you as a person, you need to learn personal branding and you need to get comfortable writing your own content and speaking and using your voice. It's always going to be more authentic when it comes from you. So find a consultant, find a marketer that will sit down with you and learn, you know, help you learn the steps that you need to take so that you can be the voice of your brand. Because this idea that you're just going to pay someone thousands of dollars, by the way, usually done for you. Social media starts at $1,000 a month. That's like the minimum.
And big agencies out of Nashville charge 2500. And the truth of the matter is they're using AI tools as well. So you're paying a lot of money for someone to get some keywords from you, and then they're gonna basically do some research and churn out some content. Is it going to speak and resonate like you Writing it? No. So that's the problem with Checkbox. I call it checkbox marketing. It's never going to perform for you like you putting your own voice out there and really getting passionate about what you believe in. It doesn't matter if you're an H VAC company or if you're, you know, a very specific boutique, or no matter what you do, a service provider, you still want to be a human because you're the human behind your business. And people choose to do business with people.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: That's right. Say it louder.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: People. People.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: People.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: People. People. People choose to do business with who they know like, and trust. And I know we've all heard that before, but it's true. I'm going to go to the automotive or mechanic that I trust, and a lot of times people make recommendations, like, maybe I recommend someone to you, but I can promise you before you call them, you're probably going to look them up online and see if you even, like, have the same vibe as them.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Right. So. And that's. Yeah, I think we all do that. So we either already know someone that we use for whatever service we're looking for.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: And if they're not available or we're in an emergency situation and we're like, oh, we have to go to plan B. So what is our plan B? Our plan B is generally reaching out to other people we know, like, who do you use? Or getting on Facebook. ISO. Right.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Search of.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Remember when that first started? I'm like, what the heck?
[00:18:01] Speaker B: What does that mean?
[00:18:02] Speaker A: What is this new thing?
[00:18:04] Speaker B: And now we see it all the.
[00:18:05] Speaker A: Time, but in search of. And so what we're doing is we're asking those that we trust, who do you use? Tell me the truth and what do you think about their service? And then we kind of go down that list. But you're right, that's. That's. It is about the human, which is what we focus on here at Collab Works is, you know, business is something we all have to do to get by in life.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Right. We all have to make money.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: It's not bad to have a business. We have to be able to reach outside the walls of our business and find the people that need our business.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: And Facebook is just one of those many ways. And it's. It is difficult sometimes. And sometimes it's. Sometimes we think it's easier than it is. So we're not using it properly.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Right. Or we're doing what I. Again, back to checks. Checkbox Marketing. You know, I copied something off Chat GPT So I checked that box. But here's what I've always said. And I built my first business, I promise you. I had 800 Facebook followers. I had about 3,000 personal Facebook followers. So that was 800 on a business page, about 3,000. I built the entire business up to over six figures in less than six months by word of mouth marketing. And I will die on this hill. Word of mouth marketing is the cheapest marketing you will ever do, and it is the most valuable, and that is build relationships with people and reinforce the real person you are in the world with your online Persona so that you can keep building that trust. And so I always describe digital marketing as word of mouth marketing on steroids because you're able to reach more people and people are able to make a recommendation.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: And so that all, everything you just said is what we're trying to do when we change that Facebook page and we start using our real people, real person for me, my Andrea Wilson page, to market the business that I love and the thing that helps me sustain and live in this world.
And if you know me, you know I'm passionate about humans. So you should know that my business is also going to be human centric.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Right. It's. It's 100% in line with who you are. And if you've ever asked on Facebook for something how many businesses were tagged versus people, I've done these audits. It's always the person that owns the business is personally tagged. You represent your business. So this is why personal branding and learning how to be confident in who you are and speaking your truth, whatever it is, you're not going to be for everybody. And this is a mistake that a lot of people make is, well, I'm worried I'm going to, you know, make someone mad. Okay, well, as long as we're not purposely being hateful or offensive. But if you're just staying in your lane and you're doing your thing, there's gonna be people who don't like you. And that's fine. Everybody does business with their own people.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: Everybody likes you. You're making everyone happy. Then you're doing something wrong. Right. So you're. You're kind of like you were. And I like to think of it as we were growing up in school. We tried to be what everyone wanted us to be because we were trying to make friends and we were trying to learn how the world works.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: So as a business person or just being a human in the world, I would say that that is a big truth that I live by is, you know, And I do. I'm not gonna lie. I get my feelings hurt if somebody doesn't like me because I'm like, why would I do. I'm such a good person. I try to be good.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: But not. I'm not for everyone. And I just saw that sweatshirt online. I'm not for everyone.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: I have a copy mug. I sure brought it. I have that copy mug.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: We just need to. Let's just be us. Let's be ourselves. Let's be ourselves on Facebook. If you. If you have your own business and you love that business, let's take the information that Crystal's given us here today and turn those into professional pages and just see how that might change the way that we can operate out there on Facebook, which. That's our concentration today. There's a lot more things I think that we can talk about.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: And that I hope we do talk about, because it is such a big peace. You can have the best business in the world, but if no one knows you exist.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: It doesn't matter. And then that's going to mess with your psyche because you're going to think, oh, I have a bad business. Right. I'm a failure and nobody cares. But the truth is, they just don't know.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:26] Speaker A: And back in the day, before we end, I do want to just. Let's, like, look at it. Right. We have radio, newspaper, television.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: I mean, it was the basics. And everybody watched the same channels, listened to the same channels because the antennas would only go so far.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:46] Speaker A: We didn't have SiriusXM that you could travel across the country.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah. You weren't seeing ads for Nashville.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And so now none of us really know where to put the dollars. And so we just stay in the state of confusion. And so Crystal and I, hopefully, in more episodes to come, we're just going to continue to unravel some of this madness about how we start where we start. And it sounds to me like it's starting with simple things. Simple things, logical things that make sense, free things.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: The other thing I do want to say, because we're talking about DIY marketing, is a lot of people get hung up on websites. Please don't go spend your money on an expensive website out the gate. You can put your business for free on Google. Google Maps. You create a Google business profile, again, 100% free. Don't let someone try to sell you that you have to spend money.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: Okay. And so you don't. If you want to know more about that, you're Going to have to listen to the next episode.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Right, yes.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: So Facebook and Google, and we will cover Google Next time. But absolutely. Let's figure out how to market your business in a way that feels good and doesn't cost you a fortune and also puts you in front of people, because that's the name of the game. It's about awareness. And it takes people seven times seeing the same thing for them to even recognize that you're there. Seven times.
[00:24:01] Speaker A: Seven times. Seven. So if you're out there and you hear this, don't get discouraged. And I'm not going to get discouraged when I put this out there. And we have a new podcast and we don't just have tons of people calling in telling us how great the show was today. But hey, if you hear it, share it with your friends. Because the idea is not everything has to cost money. And we're here to help one another. And that's what this is all about. So we're not here to get you to buy a product.
I do want you to know about Collab Works and that we are a business center and we do exist. And we'll talk about that on some different podcasts. But on this one, particularly with Crystal, we're going to try to help small business figure out how to let the world know that you're there. So don't get discouraged. Don't think you have a bad business. Don't think you need to shut the doors. Stick it out.
Stay in there. Make sure you follow this podcast.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: And we're going to give you some free stuff. In the meanwhile, if you're curious about talking to Crystal Josh about anything as far as what we've talked about today, feel free to reach out to Collab Works, like us on Facebook, all of our contacts there. You can go to our website, which is icollabwork.com and contact us that way. And I will make sure I get you in touch with her. So until the next episode, thank you for listening. We appreciate all of you that listen to our somewhat silly but very informative show today.
And I guess just ending with this last plea. Share, share with your friends. Don't keep this to yourself. Help us reach more people. Crystal, what would you like to say to close?
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Well, I just want to say thank you. I think what you're doing is really important for our community. I mean, it all starts in our community, right? We all think about, we want to grow our business to be these huge brands. Yes, that's the big dream. But we start in our own communities. And so we want to grow Western Kentucky and help small businesses here. And so I totally recommend you guys come hang out at Collab Works. It's such a sensory experience. So I have adhd, and I can't say enough about what you've done here. It really makes me feel like at home, there's just enough things going on. Like, my dopamine hits are going off, and I'm happy here. So I love to hang out here. I have a code to the door. I pay the money. So definitely recommend you guys, if you have a small business, get out of your four walls, go see some new people, and hang out in a new environment. So come here, Crystal.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: That means a whole lot. Absolutely. Appreciate that. All right, till next time, friends. Take care. Take care of yourself, take care of your business, and we'll bring you some more good free stuff.
